Catholic Middlemen on the Kenmare and Lansdowne Estates 1755 and 1775, Pride..Sloth..Drunkiness..Every one thinks himself too great for any industry except taking farms. When they happen to get them, they screw enormous rents from some beggarly dairyman and spend their whole time in the alehouse to the next village. If they have sons, they are to be bred to be priests, physicians or French officers; if daughters, they are bred to be no kind of industry but become encumbrances on their parents and the public an this sloth and beggary are transmitted from generation to generation. …1775.. Sauntering around the roads dong nothing, and their sons and daughters going to a dancing school at three shillings a quarter when they might be spinning or carding, digging or ploughing or sowing.


Catholic Middlemen on the Kenmare and Lansdowne Estates 1755 and 1775, Pride..Sloth..Drunkiness..Every one thinks himself too great for any industry except taking farms.  When they happen to get them, they screw enormous rents from some beggarly dairyman and spend their whole time in the alehouse to the next village.  If they have sons, they are to be bred to be priests, physicians or French officers; if daughters, they are bred to be no kind of industry but become encumbrances on their parents and the public an this sloth and beggary are transmitted from generation to generation. …1775..  Sauntering around the roads dong nothing, and their sons and daughters going to a dancing school at three shillings a quarter when they might be spinning or carding, digging or ploughing or sowing.

Kevin quotes this in an article about Catholic Middlemen.  It is the Records of the Kenmare estate online from the Irish Manuscript commission.

Middle men Bantry area 1740s of Kenmare (Brown) Estate: Michael Murphy Newtown, Casey Miller, Newtown, Thomas Hutchins, Ballylickey, Various Galweys, Gilbert and Richard Mellefont Donemark, Beversham Harman Laheran, Henry Puxley Gortaneer, John Young Direenkallig Robert Young Droominateenly, Isaac and Joshua Doe, Forester

1-Scan 1476

Richard Hedges of Macroom, Co. Cork, 8th June 1714, Irate letter, ‘All Mountains, Bogs, and Rocks, Entirely Inhabited by Irish from Dunmanway to Kanturk, which is 40 miles of Barbarous Country, there is not an English Gentleman of note there except William Brown, Minister at Macroom, some Heads of Irish Clans not only carry Arms and Harbour Unregistered Non-Jurist Popish priests but have gained Ascendant over Civil power there being but few Protestants and they are Overawed by the Multitude of Papists.


Richard Hedges of Macroom, Co. Cork, 8th June 1714, Irate letter, ‘All Mountains, Bogs, and Rocks, Entirely Inhabited by Irish from Dunmanway to Kanturk, which is 40 miles of Barbarous Country, there is not an English Gentleman of note there except William Brown, Minister at Macroom, some Heads of Irish Clans not only carry Arms and Harbour Unregistered Non-Jurist Popish priests but have gained Ascendant over Civil power there being but few Protestants and they are Overawed by the Multitude of Papists.

The Hedges and Davies of Macroom  were active with the Whites, Fenwicks and Blairs of Dunmanway later Bantry (some of whom had been students at the Inns of Court in London) in acquiring vast tracts of land at knockdown prices from the Hollow Blade Company.  Not involved with them but active in the purchase was Francis Bernard of Bandon, this formed the base of the Bandon estate.

Macroom Castle of the Descendants was burned in 1922.

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/property-show.jsp?id=3036&estate_id=1093

Manuscript MS 757, National Archives, from Kevin Whelan’s article on Catholic Middlemen.

1-Scan 1474

Methodist Minister, Rev. Adam Averill, 1799, on possible Scottish Origin, of West Cork, Swanton family and reputed Scottish Plantation, Castlehaven/Skibbereen c 1690s, Andersons, Hamiltons.

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https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Castlehaven,+Co.+Cork/@51.5108647,-9.1919606,12z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x4845af85f3f3c235:0x1800c7a937dfd780

Methodist Minister, Rev. Adam Averill, 1799, on possible Scottish Origin, of West Cork, Swanton family and reputed Scottish Plantation, Castlehaven/Skibbereen c 1690s, Andersons, Hamiltons.

It is interesting that the West Cork Somervilles, descend from a Rev. Somerville who fled to Ireland from persecution in Scotland c 1690 and may coincide if there was such a Plantation.

Re the names Hamilton may be Scottish or a corruption of an old Gaelic name.

The Swantons have a tradition of industry, hard work and dissent which some would say are Scottish virtues.

1-IMG_7820 1-Scan 1473

Some Birth, Marriage and Death Records from 1592 of Church of Ireland, Methodist, Quaker and old Catholic Families, Skibbereen District, West Cork and Rochester, New York.

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https://www.google.ie/maps/search/skibbereen,++Cork/@51.5559239,-9.2621303,11z

Some Birth, Marriage and Death Records from 1592 of Church of Ireland, Methodist, Quaker and old Catholic Families, Skibbereen District, West Cork and Rochester, New York.

From around 1820 Catholic Records are generally available on irishgenealogy.ie. There was significant intermarriage in the 18th and 19th century and by looking up a ‘Protestant’ name on this site you come across intermarriage or neighbours acting as sponsors in baptisms or witnesses on marriage.

Protestant records suffered from being sent to Dublin Public Records Office for safe keeping and may were destroyed in 1922.  Sometimes by accessing Canadian, US, Australia an British records it is possible to make up some of the gaps.

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/search.jsp?namefm=&namel=&location=skibbereen&yyfrom=&yyto=&submit=Search

These records are a mere snapshot.

Births:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m9FgxKSHtnyAvObc6Li4TKTmAaNdKne4P8Z2qRurU4c/edit

Marriage:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1i1w4CiMviphSsz3jOEMvF_3uw-F04ksPFgmdjum2y0Y/edit#gid=0

Deaths:

https://www.google.ie/maps/search/skibbereen,++Cork/@51.5559239,-9.2621303,11z
Courtesy Susan Beretta, Salt Lake City:

Local Loan Reproduction Records 1830s:
http://corkgen.org/publicgenealogy/cork/reproloan/Schull.html

https://durrushistory.com/2012/09/02/schull/Tithe Aplotments 1820s:

http://corkgen.org/publicgenealogy/cork/reproloan/Schull.html

Griffith 1850s:

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/

Rochester,New York, there was mass emigration from the 1820s and many names in the greater Schull area (as well as Durrus) appear in church and other records of Rochester, new Yorkm in the 1820s a boom town now those days sadly past:

Extracts from the Parish Register of St. Marks and St. Simon Cyrene, Episcopal Church, Rochester, New York. United States, for interconnected West Cork families from Schull, Durrus, Drimoleague and Dunmanway areas from c 1830s.

Emigration from the Bandon/Rathclaren area, Co Cork from c 1815 to Bathurst, New Brunswick, Canada

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Eedy family history:

http://studylib.net/doc/6811055/excerpt-from-2001-eedy-history

 

 

Rathclaren:

https://www.google.ie/maps/search/Rathlaren+Cork/@51.656201,-8.7002135,14z

Bathurst, New Brunswick:

https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Bathurst,+NB,+Canada/@47.6259605,-65.6281926,8z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x4c98941b3ad5d61d:0x505c13c653ce030
The ending of the Napoleonic Wars withe Battle of waterloo caused a huge collapse of farm prices and triggered a widespread depression. In the greater Bandon area this was worsened by the dependance of the textile industry much home based which could not withstand competition from England.

There are many accounts of widespread distress among Bandon weavers.

Emigration from the Bandon/Rathclaren area, Co Cork from c 1815 to Bathurst, New Brunswick, Canada

Sharon Haggerty, in Vancouver, British Columbia, has set up a focus e mail for those interested.

An account of the Kilgariff, Clonakilty, West Cork, Eedy family to Clifton and Bathurst, New Brunswick, Canada some of the names mentioned Knowles, Bateman, Beamish, French, Morris, Stanley, Woulfe, Crowley, O’Donovan, Cahalane, Donoghue, A Glass of Whiskey Ballygurteen Fair prior to Emigrating.

can-chaleur-bay-irish@rootsweb.com.

Incorporated Law Society of Ireland, CONSTITUTION and SESSIONAL STANDING ORDERS of the SOLICITORS’ APPRENTICES DEBATING SOCIETY OF IRELAND, 1962-4


Incorporated Law Society of Ireland, CONSTITUTION and SESSIONAL STANDING ORDERS of the SOLICITORS’ APPRENTICES DEBATING SOCIETY OF IRELAND, 1962-4

At that time the Law Society operated out of a few rooms of the Fur courts.   Due to the foresight of Reginald Prentice the former Blue Coat School was acquired and restored against trenchant opposition.

1773 – Blue Coat School, Blackhall Place, Dublin

The Irish have a great love of disputation, standing committees and constitutions. This  was drafted in 1962 by a gifted group of Young Lawyers and formed the basis of the still current Solicitors Apprentices Debating Society (SADSI).

Among the group mentioned in  1962-4, were Larry Farrell, Later Chief State Solicitor, Thomas C. Smyth later transferred to Bar and became a High Court Judge, Michael O’Mahony, formerly Senior Partner, McCann Fitzgerald, President of Law Society, Returning Officer Dáil Elections, related to Michael Collins brother of former TD Nora Owen, MEP Mary Banotti.  Interestingly only two women are included now they form a majority of qualifying lawyers in Ireland.

https://plus.google.com/photos/100968344231272482288/albums/6117495955284949345

Extracts from the Parish Register of St. Marks and St. Simon Cyrene, Episcopal Church, Rochester, New York. United States, for interconnected West Cork families from Schull, Durrus, Drimoleague and Dunmanway areas from c 1830s.

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Extracts from the Parish Register of St. Marks and St. Simon Cyrene, Episcopal Church, Rochester, New York. United States, for interconnected West Cork families from Schull, Durrus, Drimoleague and Dunmanway areas from c 1830s.

In the late 1820 Rochester New York was a boo town arising from the building of the Erie Canal.  There was substantial emigration commencing c 1820s.  There was emigration in the 18th century various members of the Balllydehob, Swanton family were going back and from.

The chain emigration continue until the 20th century.  Girls from the Durrus area continued to secure employment in the Kodak factory until at least the 1920s.

Courtesy Sharon Haggerty.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1U9RSzEX3Eqf89Dr7v-qHZAZ3SW2uyHzlq810iob66b0/edit#gid=0

Records of South West Cork families such as Dalys, Haggertys, Swanton, Jagoe. Lannin, Levis, Dukelow, Beamish, Harrington, Mahony, McCarthy, Stout, Kingston, Raycroft, Jennings. Skuce, in Registers of Rochester New York, Register Mount Hope Cemetery, Rochester, Rochester Genealogy Relevant Canadian Records.


https://www.google.ie/maps/place/Durrus,+Co.+Cork/@51.6217107,-9.521993,11z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x48459fe7ccd270df:0x231e3744ac95441a

Records of South West Cork families such as Atteridge, Brooks, Coghlan, Daly, Haggertys, Gallagher, Gosnell, Lannin, Hithcock, Justice, King, Levis, Love, Dukelow, Beamish, Stout, Jermyn, Kingston, Raycroft, Jennings, Pick, Riordan, Sullivan, Skuce, Shannon, Swanton, Woulfe, Young, in Registers of Rochester New York, Register Mount Hope Cemetery, Rochester, Rochester Genealogy Relevant.

 

DNA evidence suggest the Hegarty/Haggerts originated in Derry/Donegal possibly came down to west Cork for Battle of Kinsale , 1600, like O’Neills, O’Donnell, Gallaghers, Wards.

Canadian Records.

Often through going through these records and the Canadian and USA Census and death and marriage it is possible to establish the dates of birth and marriage of Irish born, North Americans.   This is of particular value in view of the loss, destruction or non availability Irish Records.
Many thanks to Sharon Haggerty for this.

Population Density and Emigration of West Cork Protestant families, from Mizen and Muintervera Peninsulas, to Rochester New York, Wisconsin and Percy Township, Northumberland County, Ontario from early 19th Century.

Emigration from West Cork, 19th century, Dukelow family

Nexus: Picton, Ontario and Muinterbhaire and Mizen Peninsulas, Williamson, Baker, Attridge, Dukelow, King, O’Sullivan and Hurley families

https://durrushistory.com/2014/09/02/prized-aim-of-irish-emigrants-us-certificate-of-citizenship-issued-new-york-1859/

Some of the work done by Sharon Haggerty in extracting records:  She extracted what are probably thousands of records from parish registers. In the case of Cork they include many of the parishes extending from Skull to roughly Innishannon and south to the coast.
Those she personally extracted can be found at:http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sharonmh/Cork.Registers
The website for The Rochester Genealogical Society: http://crpc.nyrgs.org/
Website for Mt Hope Cemetery in Rochester, and that was a real find, but this site is even better. They have scanned numerous church registers—mostly not indexed. She has  been through three of them so far, starting with the 266 pages of one Episcopal register:
This one that has the families I am interested in. There are lots of SW Cork names, many of them found in Skibbereen and/or Ross parish: a few Haggertys plus Swanton, Lannin, Levis, Dukelow, Bemish [sic], Stout, Kingston, Raycroft, Jennings. Skuce, others, some of which indicate where the person came from. e.g., image 160 shows Dukelows came from “Scull”, Cork, Ireland; image 135 shows Hosfords from Bandon.
Some other examples that Sharon  picked up on [square brackets are a comment from me]:
List of Communicants 1887:
image 135 of 266 – 3 Lannins said to have been born in S Johns, Peterboro Ont”
Martha (McCullagh) Lannin
Fannie Willis Lannin
Eva Lannin
[1871 census for Peterborough shows following Ch of England family: Thomas 33, Martha 29, Fanny 10, William 8, Frank 5, Eva 3 and Fredrick 1. Thomas was a merchant, Martha born Ireland but all others born Ontario. In 1881 Martha is a widow and there is one more child, Thomas. Also of interest, William is then said to be Willie—I’ll bet the record showing a child Fannie Willis is actually 2 children, Fannie and Willis/Wm/Willie—I also found an ancestry tree for this family-
Communicants 1846:
image 158 of 266
Eliza (Haggerty) McCue born Scull, Cork. Ire. 1836 (birth year? more likely immigration year?)
[does the name McCue ring any bells for you?]
1847 image 159
Cath. (Williamson) Tanner
[this one is interesting as I had found a marriage record in the marriage license bonds listing and had suggested the Catherine Tanner in Rochester might have been Catherine Williamson
So if you find you have time on your hands and want to do some browsing, go to http://crpc.nyrgs.org/  and pick a register to browse!